Before I moved to Ann Arbor in 1995, I had never met a Chaldean. Ok, in truth, I had never heard of a Chaldean. But as a freshman at the University of Michigan, and in no small part due to my curiosity and blind (and sometimes misguided) love for my fellow Arabs, I came to meet many Chaldeans, and some have remained friends of mine since then.
I learned way back then that Chaldeans find their roots in Iraq. I also learned that they are Catholics, even possessing a rite in the Catholic Church. I actually remember feeling invigorated by these new discoveries. I had found more Arabs! Yes! The fact that they were smart, successful, and good-looking was of no surprise to me. They were Arabs. We are all like that. I was delighted. I was thrilled. But most of all, I was proud.
But then, something weird happened. As I was having lunch with one of my Chaldean friends in our dorm cafeteria, one of her cousins, whom I had never met, came by to join us. After we complained how the food was nothing like our mom’s, we started talking about our parents, how they can’t speak English, how they exaggerate, and how they are sometimes just outright unbalanced. I said, “Yeah, Arab parents are crazy.” My friend’s cousin quickly sniped back, “We are not Arabs! We are Chaldean!” I was frozen. I had no idea how to respond. Here was someone whom I thought was just like me, and she was telling me, quite loudly, that she wanted nothing to do with being “Arab.”
As I have remained in Michigan over the last 19 years, I have, through my work and activism, come into contact with all the communities here in the Detroit area, including the Chaldean community, which is most likely the largest anywhere outside of Iraq. And I have encountered this sentiment over and over. It should be said that not all Chaldeans feel the same way as my friend’s cousin did back then. In fact, for every Chaldean I meet declaring that he is not an Arab, I meet another declaring that he is.
I have performed comedy for many Chaldean audiences. And they laugh, because their moms save bags too, and their dads can’t pronounce “P” too, and they’ve been discriminated against too. But, although they always enjoy my shows, I have gotten many lectures from Chaldeans after my performances for them. “Good job, Amer. You’re funny. But remember, we’re not Arabs.”
For those who have proclaimed that they are not Arabs, the platform has always been the same. “Yes, we come from Iraq, an Arab country, but we are not Arabs, because we are Christians and we speak our own language.” The “we are Christians” argument can be discarded pretty readily, as Christianity was born in a place that is today inhabited by Arabs. My hometown of Nazareth, Jesus’ hometown as well, is currently packed with Christian Arabs. I come, in part, from a Christian Arab background. Some of the leading figures of Arab nationalism over the past century have been Christians. An individual may be Christian and Arab at the same time. And Chaldeans know this.
And yes, most Chaldeans do speak Aramaic. However, they also speak Arabic, especially if they grew up in Iraq, an Arabic-speaking country. In fact, the Aramaic that many of them speak at home is not read or written in any meaningful capacity. Chaldean-owned radio stations, television channels, and newspapers, established here in America and aimed at the Chaldean community, are all broadcast and written in Arabic.
So why are some (maybe most) Chaldeans so intent on making sure everyone knows that they are not Arab? Could it be because American media and politicians have promoted the belief that Arab=Muslim, Muslim=Terrorist, Terrorist=Un-American? Who would want to be an Arab in that world? In a society where being Arab is many times as some sort of threat to the American way of life, it can be tempting to find an “out,” or a way to extract one’s self from all that ugly “Arabness.”
And why do I care? Well, I must admit, my motives are a bit selfish. Chaldean Americans are smart and successful. They are overachievers. They are strong models of what hard work and dedication can produce. They are examples of the American dream. So I want them to be Arabs. And whether they like it or not, I am going to claim them.
So to my Chaldean brothers and sisters, I say: Come on home. I am not a particularly religious person, but as a Palestinian from Nazareth, I love Jesus deeply. And I am reminded of when he said something like, “That which you do to the least of my brethren, you do to me.” You are my brethren.
Politicians and the media routinely engage in the ugly activity of using “Arab” as a dirty word. Let’s not do it to each other.
True that. I hear that all the time from my Chaldean acquaintances that they are from the Chaldees of old. Why I do not know. There are also Lebanese Christians who claim to be Phoenicians. What to do? What to do? Interestingly enough, the Zionists, in proving that there is no such thing as a Palestinian, insist that they are just “ordinary Arabs,” like the Egyptians, the Lebanese, the Syrians, the Iraqis. Well I say that just as there are “ordinary Slavs,” who happen to be Ukrainian, like me, Polish, Russian, Serbian, Croatian, Bulgarian, etc. So it is possible to be an Arab and a Palestinian, Chaldean, Syrian, etc. Sounds good to me.
Turns out Phoenician DNA mostly runs in urban Sunni Muslims; Lebanese Christians closer to the general Syrian population
Chaldean were the people of Hammurabi and Nebuchadnezzar who established the Babylonian empire, so maybe they identify themselves as descendants and not Arab, which are a different race from the peninsula. And in turn, there’s a different Assyrian race who identify themselves with old Assyrian empire that held most of the ME at one point, though very fragile with lots of revolts (instability it seems is a defining characteristic of mesopotomia and the Levant); emperors Sennacherib and Ashurbanipal, Sargon?… Long before Arabs dominated politically with Islamic conquests. Amazigh/Berber are another race native to North Africa. Different races intersecting with different religions. I hope the US with its founding fathers’ dreams can teach us/transfer to us the secular civil form of nation, instead of one group ruling oppressively over another, before being violently deposed and to counter Israeli example; instead of Arab/Muslim naive sentiment.
Signed: Modest Muslim Arab Lebanese for 1200 years, previously from Yemen region in the Peninsula
NB Turns out Phoenician DNA mostly runs in urban Sunni Muslims; Lebanese Christians closer to the general Syrian population.
I am Assyrian and I object to the baselessness of the questions in this article. It is not that we refuse to consider ourselves Arabs or see “Arab” as a dirty word; we are simply not Arabs. It is the same way that you would not say that immigrants from South Asia to the UK would not “refuse to consider themselves White”; they simply are not White. Prior to the 7th century there were many different peoples in both Mesopotamia and the Levant. However, after the Islamic Conquest, the process of Arabization (تعريب) occurred whereby a Levantine or Mesopotamian would “become an Arab” by speaking Arabic and practicing Islam. Since we did not convert to Islam, we remained with our Pre-Islamic ethnicity, so we are not Arabs. By the same token, the Maronites and Jews did not Arabize and therefore remained distinct in the Middle East from Arabs. (Conversely, the fact that the Turks and Persians did not speak Arabic also prevented them from Arabizing.)
We find it annoying that our brothers and sisters who underwent Arabization and have shed their identities and proceeded to repress us for centuries now tell us that we should just give up on our distinctiveness and uniqueness.
From what I understand, there are 2 ways one can define Arabs.
1. Arabs who originated from the Arab Peninsula, who spread and arabized the rest of what is now the Arab world. So one can say Arabs differ from the indigenous people of the Levant ex. Phoenecians. There has also been mixing over the generations, so I doubt there is purity of race, and DNA analysis points that way. In addition the Ghassenids whom many Arab Christians (and Moslems) descend from are considered Arabs and they originate from Yemen (kingdom of Saba/Sheba).
2.The other definition of Arab, is simply Arab speaking and it recognizes that the Arab world is multi-racial and that there are different ancestries.
I think this latter definition is what people use, and it is not a bad one, so one can describe themselves as Arab based on language and that their country belongs to the Arab league. They can then state their ethnicity like the Chaldeans, that they pre-date Arabs.
In addition to this, the word Arab American until recently referred to christian Arabs.
the origin of arabs and hebrew are the people of Aws Arami people none of you know your history properly Ad bin Aws bin Iram (Aram) Thamud bin Gether (Athir) bin Iram before the actual tribe Ad perished Adite Kings Shaddad and Shadid ruled all of Iraq and Syria then Ad the actual tribe perished Prophet Hud and Thamud migrated to al hijr they lived from there to greater part of Syria they mixed with Assyrians arent the Assyrians people of Aashur ? the Thamud are from Hud or just royals then thamud went astray Prophet Saleh pbh was sent to them when the actual tribe of thamud were punished the remaining sons of Aram were known as Arman they are the Nabateans whose language and culture was aramaic . the Arameans are the chaldeans came from west this was after Thamud perished Nimrod bin Arphaxad dwelling place was al hijr thats North Arabia what about his descendants and who did they mix with
one and same people it makes arameans all arami people . why do you think they call Nabi Ibrahim pbh the wandering Aramean
Salaam and Salutations, Amer:
A few points addressed in the comments make very strong points. The definition of “Arab” is a very tricky and vague one. “Arab” is a combination of one or all of the following: (1) Ethnicity: ancestors were true Arabs, descended from Qahtan; (2) Language: this is something most communities of the Middle East underwent, which resulted in non-Arabs becoming “Arabised” (musta’rab); (3) Culture: this is one I still do not understand; (4) Religion: the predominant “Arab” religion is Islam, with Arabic as its sacred tongue.
The Assyrians, because they haven’t had a nation since the fall of the Assyrian Empire, have continued to live in the land of their ancestors: the Levant! They are, more or less, the descendants of a particular Semitic ethnic group. Post-Islamic conquest saw many adherents to Islam in the north and the adoption of the Arabic language (which became the scientific language by the Mediaeval era, he Mediaeval era that even Iraqi Jews conversed in). In the contemporary age, when political boundaries formed nations, it made sense for citizens to call themselves “Syrian” or “Iraqi”, and since the scattered Assyrian communities still retained their language and ethnic identity, they still consider themselves “Syrian” Assyrian or “Iraqi” Assyrian. Among themselves, they are identified by the church they belong to, and/or by the dialect of Neo-Aramaic/Syriac their community speaks. The fact is, that the dominance of Arabic and Arab influence in the Levant has left them scattered and separated in the Levant, and of course they will declare themselves “Assyrian” (or Aramean, or Chaldean…) if someone mistakes them as an Arab. Their heritage is dwindling away, so they take that opportunity to make themselves known—it is natural! So, no Assyrians are generally *not* Arabs, even in the least sense of the word. Kudos to them for keeping their heritage alive!
Even “Jewish” and “Jew” have mixed meanings, and among themselves, they are identified as “Sephardi”, “Mizrahi”, “Ashkenazi”, etc! We can all agree, though: we are all Semites, with a Semitic language! ;-)
I understand the sentiment you make in your article, Amer! I’m very glad to have found this blog. I am an “Arabised” Hashemite involved in an undergraduate research project that aims to preserve the Syriac language, and to drastically expand the numbers of native speakers of Syriac to include the Arab Syrians and Arab Iraqis, as well as the Assyrians…but I’m procrastinating for just a bit to leave this comment :) I found both your views and others’ views interesting. There are so many facts involved with Semitic and Middle Eastern identity that my research paper is drowning in!
Hello,
from what I read Chaldeans are distinct from Assyrians. Chaldeans are the Babylonian race that established the only Babylonian empire (Hammurabi, maybe Nebuchadnezzar). Assyrians are way to the North (Ninveh?, Nimrud) who built the assyrian empire.
Anyway, the history does show the great instability of the region and the alternating domination of one group over the other by force. Never did it occurr to them to use their heads instead of sword, and establish a pluralistic multi-ethnic society.
I am Chaldean, and all throughout my upbringing my hypocritical parents would tell me that I wasn’t Arab because we have our own language and are Roman Catholic
Yet throughout my teenage years I wasn’t allowed to date (an Arab custom), I married someone who I’d never met before (an Arab custom), and male friends were frowned upon (also an Arab custom).
My mother cooks Arabic food regularly, and my father often speaks Arabic. So I think it’s not only silly but incredibly obnoxious when Chaldean people say they’re not Arab.
We might not be Arab Historically, and geographically but realistically we are
I appreciate the sentiment of unity you are going for, and yayyyy for Middle Eastern brotherhood, and what I am saying doesn’t mean Chaldeans don’t love Arabs, but I don’t think it’s your right at all to “claim” that an indigenous group is Arab when they don’t identify as such. Pan-Arabism has resulted in anyone who lives in “Arab” world being labeled as Arab just because they speak a dialect of Arabic (btw the reason dialects differ so much is mainly because of the effect the indigenous language had on it-for instance, Egyptians have the interrogative “ee” or “leeh” at the end of sentences because that’s how it was in Coptic before Arabs conquered Egypt). Like Egyptians are only 15% Semitic and yet whether they want to be or not, ever since Gamal Abdel Nasaer, they are labeled Arab. If Chaldeans–who have their own linguistic and cultural legacy separate from that if Arabs–claim they aren’t Arab, you must respect that. Doesn’t mean they don’t love Arabs but they have a right to be proud of their distinct history and culture. What you are doing is the equivalent of a Chinese person telling a Tibetan “Well I want to claim you so you aren’t Tibetan, you’re Chinese”. Chaldean identity is based on more than religion, btw. It’s ethnic, linguistic, cultural, etc.
Chaldeans are Not Arabs. They are the native Mesopotamian Babylonians & Assyrians. Arabs came from the Arabian Peninsula, modern-day Saudi Arabia, spread throughout the Middle East.
It is Common when you mix with any other ethnic group or culture you adapt to that society. meaning Language, Food, Social life.
Just like you wouldn’t call Kurds Arabs, or Tibetans Chinese it’s the same idea. We have our own Language, History,and Religion. It’s complicated for the west to understand the ancient Eastern world and its History. Unfortunately the media has only spreads negative images of a beautiful region and its kind hearted welcoming people.
You can post facts, but the real obvious reason Chaldeans do not like to be called Arab is because people associate it with Islam.
Chaldeans migrated from West to East . The Arameans are the Chaldeans . Up to date I have seen Prophet Muhammad pbh 15 times now , Sayyidina Ibrahim 1 time pbh and Sayyidina ‘Isa time pbh. On 02/11d/14 I dreamt the Arameans are the Chaldeans. On 30/08/12 I dreamt the Greeks and Kurds are the same and that the Kurds are from Edomites. On 23/09/13 I dreamt of the Prophet pbh saying the Kurds are from Chaldeans , pointing to himself he said they are my people. Who do you think Sayyidina Ibrahim pbh is . He is a Chaldean .On 01/12d/15 I dreamt the Edomites are the Chaldeans and that the Kurds and Indians are from Chaldeans ( Indians /Hind whether brown or fair) On 06/03/12 I dreamt that all the Pashtun are is a mix of Edomite and Rajput
On 19/08m/14 I dreamt the Prophet Muhammad pbh is Arami
When Thamud in turn was destroyed, the remaining sons of Iram were called Arman — they are Nabateans
from Prophets and Patriarchs)))
The origin of the Nabateans remains obscure, but they were Aramaic speakers, and the term “Nabatean” was the Arabic name for an Aramean of Syria and Iraq.
The story of Hud is mentioned several times in the Quran. To avoid repetition, we quote just one passage here (from the Quran chapter 46, verses 21-26):
Mention Hud, one of ‘Ad’s own brethren. Behold, he warned his people beside the winding sand-tracts. But there have been warners before him and after him, saying: “Worship none other than Allah. Truly I fear for you the chastisement of a mighty Day.”}}}}}}}}}}}}
They said, “Have you come in order to turn us away from our gods? Then bring upon us the calamity with which you threaten us, if you are telling the truth!”
He said, “The knowledge of when it will come is only with Allah. I proclaim to you the mission on which I have been sent, but I see that you are a people in ignorance.”
Then, when they saw a cloud advancing towards their valleys, they said: “This cloud will give us rain!” No, it is the calamity you were asking to be hastened! A wind wherein is a grievous chastisement!
Everything will it destroy by the command of its Lord! Then by the morning, nothing was to be seen but the ruins of their houses. Thus do We recompense those given to sin.
The life of the Prophet Hud is also described in other passages of the Quran: 7:65-72, 11:50-60, and 26:123-140. The eleventh chapter of the Quran is named after him.
MANY years passed by after the torment that befell the people of ‘Ad, and other generations came to succeed them. Among these were the Thamud people who were the successors of the believers who were saved with Prophet Hud. Once again, the people of Thamud, deviated from the right path and started to worship idols, and once again, Allah the Most Merciful decided to send them a prophet from amongst themselves to guide them back to the right path. This prophet was Prophet Saleh(SWS).
The people of Thamud were Arab tribes that lived in the area between Madinah and Syria. Their land was made of rocky mountains and spacious fertile plains. They lived in huge houses that they carved out of the huge rocks in the mountains – and the remains of these houses are still visible in northwest Saudi Arabia. The Thamud people were arrogant and they oppressed the poor among them. The rich exploited the plains and water resources and seldom did they permit others to equally profit from the bounty of Allah. Prophet Saleh, whom they respected very much for he was the most righteous among them, was sent to them as a warner. He said to them: “O my people! Worship Allah, you have no other god but Him,”
On d/m/y 13/08/13 I dreamt the Assyrians are Adites successors of the Thamud
On m/d/y 10/01/13 I dreamt the Thamud mixed with the Assyrians
Historian and scholar, Ibn Khaldun also mentions the Thamud several times in his great universal history al-Kitābu l-ʻibār (“Book of Evidence”), but only in passing, seldom giving much information.
Some examples from the Muqaddimah (“Introduction”):
This can be illustrated by what happened among the nations. When the royal authority of ‘Ad was wiped out, their brethren, the Thamud, took over. They were succeeded, in turn, by their brethren, the Amalekites. The Amalekites were succeeded by their brethren, the Himyar. The Himyar were succeeded by their brethren, the Tubba’s, who belonged to the Himyar. They, likewise, were succeeded, by the Adhwa’. Then, the Mudar came to power.
—Ibn Khaldun, Muqaddimah Chapter II Bedouin civilization, savage nations and tribes and their conditions of life, including several basic and explanatory statements, 21 As long as a nation retains its group feeling, royal authority that disappears in one branch will, of necessity, pass to some other branch of the same nation ( note amalekites are the Imliq) “
According to Arab historians such as Ibn Khaldun and Ali ibn al-Athir, Amalek is a name given to the Amorites and the Canaanites. on 02/17/13 i dreamt all the imliq are from Ad
((((((According to Arab historians such as Ibn Khaldun and Ali ibn al-Athir, Amalek is a name given to the Amorites and the Canaaniteson 02/17/13 i dreamt all the imliq are from Ad)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))The Muslim historian Muhammad ibn Jarir al-Tabari (c. 915) recounts a tradition that the wife of Lud was named Shakbah, daughter of Japheth, and that she bore him “Faris, Jurjan, and the races of Faris”. He further asserts that Lud was the progenitor of not only the Persians, but also the Amalekites and Canaanites, and all the peoples of the East, Oman, Hejaz, Syria, Egypt, and Bahrein.wikipedia (( as I said the Imliq are Amorites and they mixed with Hamitic Canaanites)
.on 08/15/12 I dreamt there is no such thing as the amalekites the Imliq are from the Ad
I have also dreamt of the people of Lud in saudia arabia and i saw nur(light)… On 23/11/11 i dreamt the amlaq(imliq) were the giant people
On 07/23/13 I dreamt of North Syria area of Hatay and I see Thaqifi people who are from Hud AS and I see them and Banu Haashim standing together wearing white
On 20/03/13 I dreamt that the Thamud are from Nabi HUD AS
on 20/10/13 I read this from {{{{{{{{Wikipedia “The title and description given by Photius to Thamud indicates that they had a status similar to Qedarites who have been identified as Arabs”}}}}}
According to Classical Arabic sources, it’s agreed upon that the only remaining group of the native people of Thamud are the tribe of Banu Thaqif which inhabited the city of Taif south of Mecca.Wikipedia
Nabi Hud is from Ad bin Aws(Uz) bin Aram , he is Arami
02/11D/14 I dreamt the ARAMEANS ARE THE CHALDEANS
ON 23/09/13 I DREAMT OF THE PROPHET P H SAYING THE KURDS ARE FROM THE CHALDEANS , POINTING TO HIMSELF HE SAID THEY ARE MY PEOPLE.
NABI IBRAHIM IS CHALDEAN
The Yemen, al-Bahrayn, Oman, and the Jazirah have long been in Arab possession, but for thousands of years, the rule of these areas has belonged to different (Arab) nations in succession. They also founded cities and towns (there) and promoted the development of sedentary culture and luxury to the highest degree. Among such nations were the ‘Ad and the Thamud, the Amalekites and the Himyar after them, the Tubbas, and the other South Arabian rulers (Adhwa) . ((((((There was a long period of royal authority and sedentary culture. The coloring of (sedentary culture) established itself firmly. The crafts became abundant and firmly rooted. They were not wiped out simultaneously with (each ruling) dynasty, as we have stated. ((((They have remained and have always renewed themselves down to this time, and they have become the specialty of that area. )))Such (special Yemenite) crafts are embroidered fabrics, striped cloth, and finely woven garments and silks.
—Muqaddimah Chapter V [9]
ON 19/08/14 I DREAMT THE PROPHET MUHAMMAD PBH IS ARAMI
ON 18/09/14 I DREAMT THE DESCENDANTS OF HUD PBH WERE GENERALS
On 01/03d/15 I dreamt the Imliq and Akkadians are the Nabateans imliq and Akkadians mixed with Hamitic Canaanites Dravidians with straight hair and a Canaanite people same as pure first nations people of North America
On 10/15,16/14 I dreamt of North Africa only and I see a Sayyid of Morocco and that all of North Africa is from Nabi Saaih pbh. On 13 /11/2014 I dreamt it was the Imliq and Akkadians who carried the blessing. The Sayyid I saw was Mustafa Bassir
On 09/30/12 I dreamt the Kurds and Indians (Indians) are from Hittite royalty.
No date 2 times I dreamt the Lydians were in North Africa and they (Lydians) are the Hittites.
03/08m/14 I dreamt of the Hittites mixed with Kurds.
11/12m/12 I dreamt the Hittites were in West Coast of India.
05/25/14 I dreamt of berbers are from indo aryan hittites
,hittites mixed with Assyrians . ( Lydians are Hittites and were in North Africa
●07/07/12i dreamt the Arameans absorbed the amorites●
In a hadith reported in Sahih Muslim, Muhammad mentions that ‘Isa (Jesus) resembles Urwah ibn Mas’ud.[2] closest in appearance. He was very white with reddish cheeks,tall with dark black hair and eyes.wikipedia
●The companion who most resembles ‘Eesaa (Jesus), may Allaah exalt hi mention, is’Urwah Ibn Mas’ood . The evidence is the narration reported by Imaams Muslimand At-Tirmithi that Jaabir narrated that the Prophet said: “I was shown the Prophets in front of me, and Moosaa resembles the men of the tribe of Shanu’ah, and I saw ‘Eesaa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), may Allaah exalt their mention, and the person who resembles him most is ‘Urwah Ibn Mas’ood, and I saw Ibraaheem and the person who resembles him most is your companion- referring to himself and I saw Jibreel (the angel Gabriel), and the person who resembles him most is Dihyah.”●
●I dreamt on m/d/y 10/05/12 the Thamud went into India and went into southern India●
Gerrha came to existence because Aramaeans (Chaldaeans) moved to its location and built up the city as per their own needs as merchants; this was quite typical of the Aramaeans. They used to setup new cities in diverse countries; as example, they founded Kaine (”new”) city in Upper Egypt at a strategic location on the road that linked the Nile Valley with the Red Sea coast. Kaine survived down to our times as Qena, 60 km north of Luxor.
As the Aramaeans undertook and totally controlled the trade with Yemenites across the peninsula and other parts of the Asiatic landmass, they were the primary partners of the Sabaeans, the strongest Yemenite kingdom in land. In coordination with the Sabaeans, and in full understanding of their mutual, commercial — economic needs, the Aramaeans founded Gerrha. In fact, the city location should serve the needs of the Sabaean — Aramaean trade and the diffusion of East African and Yemenite merchandises to Mesopotamia, Iran, Caucasus, and Central Asia.
More specifically, the location of Gerrha would serve the Sabaean — Aramaean interests by being at the end of a road and at the beginning of a bifurcation. This means that products for Mesopotamia, Anatolia, Syria, Armenia, and Caucasus would be dispatched toward the West; on the other hand, merchandises for Central Asia and India would be shipped toward the North and the East. Starting from the land of the Sabaeans and advancing to the North, one immediately understands that the bifurcation point (Gerrha) could not be located in any other land except the territory of the Emirates.
If Gerrha was located in the area of today’s Al Ehsa province of Saudi Arabia, its location would not serve the Sabaean — Aramaean interests, as it would expose the East African and Yemenite merchandises that were directed for Central Asia to Arsacid Parthian taxes and customs.
Worse, if Gerrha was located in the area of today’s Al Ehsa province of Saudi Arabia, there would not be any need for a city to be built there at all! Why building a city so close to the southern part of Mesopotamia (today’s Iraq and Kuwait), since the road from North Yemen would soon reach the confines of Mesopotamia? Caravans transporting goods from Yemen would not need to stop in any city if they had already reached the territory of Al Ehsa province of today’s Saudi Arabia; they would simply advance and soon reach their destination.
So, to first search for a possible location of an ancient city located on the trade network between East and West like Gerrha, one must understand that it should be pretty far from Mesopotamia in order to have a reason to exist.
Chaldea
SYNONYMS OR RELATED TERMS: Chaldaea; Chaldaeans
CATEGORY: site
DEFINITION: A land in southern Babylonia (modern southern Iraq) frequently mentioned in the Old Testament and first described by Assyrian king Ashurnasirpal II (reigned 884/883-859 BC). Its more important rulers were Nabopolassar, Nebuchadnezzar, and Nabonidus, who ruled an empire from the Persian Gulf between the Arabian desert and the Euphrates delta. Nabopolassar in 625 became king of Babylon and inaugurated a Chaldean dynasty that lasted until the Persian invasion of 539 BC. The prestige of his successors, Nebuchadrezzar II (reigned 605-562) and Nabonidus (reigned 556-539), was such that Chaldean” became synonymous with “Babylonian” and Chaldea replaced Assyria as the main power in the Near East. “Chaldean” also was used by several ancient authors to denote the priests and other persons educated in the classical Babylonian astronomy and astrology and to the Aramaean tribe named for Kaldu which first settled in this area in the 10th century BC.”
Tayma
SYNONYMS OR RELATED TERMS: Tayma’
CATEGORY: site
DEFINITION: Iron Age city in Hejaz, Arabia. Nabonidus (reigned 555-539 BC) was the last king of the Neo-Babylonian empire and lived there for 10 years. There is a series of large walled compounds and a small mound in the center of town. There is a cultic area and carved scenes with an iconography derived from the Mesopotamian world. Stelae with Aramaic inscriptions of the 1st millennium BC have been found. As early as the 6th century BC, the Chaldean kings of Babylon maintained Tayma as a summer capital.
The people of ‘Ad were tall in stature and were skillful masons. God had given them abundance of wealth, cattle, children and gardens. They had attained a considerable degree of civilization. Among them flourished the famous king Shaddad. He built a magnificent palace near ‘Aden. It was known as the Garden of Iram. He was a mighty king and his conquests extended to Syria, Iraq and the frontier of Sub- continent of Indo-Pakistan.
Adites conquered Syria and Iraq so what does that make Imliq and people of Aashur all people of Aws a mix
Also I saw imliq are from Prophet Saleh pbh and Akkadians are from Prophet Hud pbh . At beginning of this year 2015
On 04/01m/ 15 I dreamt the Generals in the armies of Greeks were from Prophet Hud pbh (his descendants) Indo aryan Hittites their origin is from Akkadians.I saw Hittite face and black hair.
On 08/26/13 I dreamt the Kurds in Jordan mixing with Nabateans I saw northern iraq.
http://i.ytimg.com/vi/4cwy9BkMRdA/hqdefault.jpg kurdish
https://emaj2008.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/pic-from-marina311.jpg arab on left surely has similar features to pic of kurdish above especially if kurdish in above pic grows his hair long
And how i saw Sayyidina Ibrahim pbh was he had an oval face , v hairline , black wavy hair , upside down v eyebrows
a beautiful curve to his nose bridge , one flowing curve NOT a bump then a curve and NOT hooked at end and Not too big or too small just right
Imliq are from Nabi Saleh pbh and Arameans(chaldeans)absorbed the imliq arameans mixed into Assyrians there are 3 Nimrods 1 Nimrod bin Arfakhshaad whise dwelling place was al hijr 2. Nimrod bin cush bin Canaan . Nimrod bin Cush . Nimrod bin Arfakhshaad had descendants who did they mix with prior to migration east to Iraq
●●To Lud bin Shem was born Tasm and Judays?who dwelt in al Yamaamah.Lud also begot ‘Imliq whose dwelling place was the holy area(al haram) and the outskirts of Makka. Some of his descendant’s reached Syria among these are the Amalekites from whom the Pharaohs of Egypt came. To Lud to was born Umaym who had many offspring some of these broke away to join Gomer bin Japheth in East.Amalekites(Imliq) from Prophets and Patriarchs
‘Imliq is the father of the Amalekites from whom came the berbers,who are children of Thamila bin Maarib bin Faaraan bin ‘Amr bin ‘Imliq bin Lud bin Sam(Shem) bin Nuh (Noah)PBH
From Prophets and Patriarchs
Iraqi kurds are 28.4 % j2 and it is 22.1% j1
Who are the Kurds? from wiki.answers.com/Q/Who_are_the_KurdsAn …
A people originally come from Kurdistan mountains in Western of Iran. Now they live in Iran, Turkey , Iraq and some in Syria.
Answer
The region in Iran is also written “Kordistan”. Currently, there is an eastern province of Iran called Kordistan. Modern Kurds are referring to the region around Ninevah and Kirkuk in Iraq as “Kordistan”.However, their history is chequered. One of the Kurds’ own historians remarks that between 1500 and 600 BC, their history seems lost. This is because of the problems in chronology that pervade the modern history of the ancient Middle East. The Kurds actually inhabit the regions known as the “Lands of the Hittites” or “Hatti Lands” (of the Egyptian hieroglyphs). In ancient Egyptian hieroglyphs, the scribes wrote these peoples as the “Kh-t-(a)”. The ancient Greeks read this as “Ch-d-(a)” [the vowel ‘a’ or ‘ae’ is assumed in both cases].Egyptologists equated the “Kh-t-(a)” with the Biblical Chitti (or “Hittites as in “Uriah the Hittite). Thus the name “hittites” stuck. In the Egyptian record, this nation appears in circa 1500-1100 BC, but the new Egyptian chronology that has the 18th dynasty dated from about 1000-800 BC and the 19th dynasty from about 720-600 BC brings this so-called “Hittite” history forward by about 500 years. From the Greek (e.g., by Herodotus et al) transcript of this ancient Egyptian term, we get or read “Chaldeans”. And that explains the real identity behind the modern Kurds. They are descended from the Chaldeans also known as the Chasdim in ancient Hebrew. In the Bible, Nebuchadnezzar of the Kasdim is also written as “Nebuchadrezzar”. However, as we find in many examples in both ancient Phoenician and even in the Hebrew Bible (The Tanaach), the letters ‘r’ and ‘d’ are often mistaken for each other. Assuming this for the case in “Nebu-chadre-zzar”, we get Nebu-Chard-ezzar or Nebo’s (i.e., the Planet Mercury whom this
king worshipped) Tsar of the Kurds. Thus the Kurds are the descendants of the Babylonian Chaldeans whom the Prophet Isaiah (chapter 23) described as being driven out of lower Iraq by the land turning into desert. So their original homeland was in fact Southern Iraq untilcirca 1000-800 BC.
Though conquerors, the Chaldeans were rapidly and completely assimilated into the dominant Semitic Akkadian Babylonian culture, as the Amorites before them had been, and after the fall of Babylon in 539 BC the term “Chaldean” was no longer used to describe a specific ethnicity, but rather a socio-economic class. The language used by the Chaldeans was the Babylonian dialect of Akkadian, the same Semitic language, save for slight peculiarities in sound and in characters, as Assyrian Akkadian. In late periods both the Babylonian and Assyrian dialects of Akkadian ceased to be spoken, and Aramaic took its place across Mesopotamia, and remains the mother tongue of the Assyrian (also known as Chaldo-Assyrian) Christians of Iraq and its surrounds to this day. One form of this widespread language is used in Daniel and Ezra, but the use of the name “Chaldee” to describe it, first introduced by Jerome, is incorrect and a misnomer. wikipedia
Posting again to show my point 30/08/12 I dreamt the Greeks & Kurds are same & that the Kurds are from Edomites.
On 09/30/12 I dreamt the Kurds and Indians (Indians) are from Hittite royalty.
No date 2 times I dreamt the Lydians were in North Africa and they (Lydians) are the Hittites.
03/08m/14 I dreamt of the Hittites mixed with Kurds.
11/12m/12 I dreamt the Hittites were in West Coast of India.
05/25/14 I dreamt of berbers are from indo aryan hittites
,hittites mixed with Assyrians . ( Lydians are Hittites and were in North Africa
kurds are from Madai bin Japheth (medes) who married a daughter of Shem Medes had alliance with Chaldeans also Medes mixed lydians who are the Hittites The Medes were an ancient Iranian people[N 2] who lived in an area known as Media (North-western Iran and south-east Turkey) and who spoke a northwestern Iranian language referred to as the Median language. Their arrival to the region is associated with the first wave of migrating Iranic Aryans tribes into Ancient Iran from the late 2nd millennium BCE (circa 1000 BC) (the Bronze Age collapse) through the beginning of the 1st millennium BCE (circa 900 BC).
Cyaxares. He was born in the Median capital of Ecbatana, his father Phraortes was killed in a battle against the Assyrians, led by Ashurbanipal, the king of Neo-Assyria. After his fall the Scythians took over. In his early age Cyaxares was seeking for revenge. He killed the Scythian leaders and proclaimed himself as King of Medes. After throwing off the Scythians, he prepared for war against Assyria.[5] ((((Cyaxares reorganized and modernized the Median Army, then joined with King Nabopolassar of Babylonia.))))) ●This alliance was formalized through the marriage of Cyaxares daughter, Amytis with Nabopolassar’s son, Nebuchadnezzar II))))))), the king who constructed the Hanging Gardens of Babylon as a present for his Median wife to help with her homesickness for the mountainous country of her birth. These allies overthrew the Assyrian Empire and destroyed Nineveh in 612 BC
Indo aryan Hittite empire
●This empire reached its height during the mid-14th century BC under Suppiluliuma I, when it encompassed an area that ●included most of Asia Minor as well as parts of the northern Levant and Upper Mesopotamia. ●After c. 1180 BC, the empire came to an end during the Bronze Age collapse, splintering into several independent “Neo-Hittite” city-states, some of which survived until the 8th century BC.
●Lydia arose as a Neo-Hittite kingdom following the collapse of the Hittite Empire in the twelfth century BC. According to Greek sources, the original name of the Lydian kingdom was Maionia. Herodotus relates that that the “Maiones” were renamed Lydians after their king, Lydus (Greek: son of Attis, in the mythical epoch that preceded the rise of the Heracleid dynasty. The boundaries of historical Lydia varied across the centuries. It was first bounded by Mysia, Caria, Phrygia and coastal Ionia. Later on, the military power of Alyattes and Croesus expanded Lydia into an empire, with its capital at Sardis, which controlled all Asia Minor west of the River Halys, except Lycia. After the Persian conquest the Maeander was regarded as its southern boundary, and under Rome, Lydia comprised the country between Mysia and Caria on the one side and Phrygia and the Aegean on the other. According to Herodotus, the Lydians were the first people to introduce the use of gold and silver coins and the first to establish retail shops in permanent locations. The dating of these first stamped coins is one of the most frequently debated topics in ancient numismatics, with dates ranging from 700 BC to 550 BC, but the most commonly held view is that they were minted at or near the beginning of the reign of King Alyattes, who ruled Lydia c. 609-560 BC. Alyattes’ son was Croesus reigned 560-547 BC), who became synonymous with wealth — thus the expression “rich as Croesus”. The Lydian capital Sardis was renowned as a rich and beautiful city. Around 550 BC, near the beginning of his reign, Croesus paid for the construction of the temple of Artemis at Ephesus, which became one of the Seven Wonders of the Ancient World. Croesus is also famous for asking the Oracle at Delphi whether he should go to war against Persia. With typical ambiguity the oracle answered that if Croesus attacked the Persians, he would destroy a great empire. He went to war and was defeated in battle by Cyrus II of Persia in 546 BC, with the Lydian kingdom losing its autonomy and becoming a Persian satrapy… thus destroying his own empire.
Astyages – Astyages; by Ctesias as Astyigas; by Diodorus as Aspadas; Akkadian: Ištumegu) was the last king of the Median Empire, r. 585 BCE-550 BCE, the son of Cyaxares; he was dethroned in 550 BCE by his own grandson, Cyrus the Great. His name derives from the Old Iranian Rishti Vaiga, which means “swinging the spear, lance-hurler.”[1]
Astyages succeeded his father in 585 BCE, following the Battle of Halys,[2] which ended a five-year war between the Lydians and the Medes.(((( He inherited a large empire, ruled in alliance with his two brothers-in-law, Croesus of Lydia and Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon, whose wife, Amytis, Astyages’ sister, was the queen for whom Nebuchadnezzar was said to have built the Hanging Gardens of Babylon.[3] but due to the recent evidence, the garden was likely built by the Assyrian King Sennacherib. (((Married to Aryenis, the sister of King Croesus of Lydia, to seal the treaty between the two empires, Astyages ascended to the Median throne upon his father’s death later that year.)))))
Aryenis of Lydia was, according to Herodotus, the daughter of King Alyattes of Lydia and the sister of King Croesus of Lydia.))))))))))))
Aryenis was also the Queen consort of Astyages, King of Media and mother of Mandane of Media and a probable Amytis, married to her nephew Cyrus the Great. She was also mother-in-law of Cambyses I of Anshan and maternal grandmother of Cyrus the Great.
She was given in marriage to Astyages to seal a treaty between Cyaxares of Media and Alyattes II of Lydia, following the Battle of the Eclipse.)))))))
Croesus was born in c.595 as the son of Alyattes, the ruler of Lydia between c.600 and c.560, and a woman from Caria. He had a sister Aryenis who was in 585 old enough to be married to king Astyages of Media, as part of a border treaty between Lydia and Media. She must have been two or three years older than Croesus. Another sister was married to the tyrant of the Greek city Ephesus, Melas. Finally, Croesus had a half-brother Pantaleon, the son of king Alyattes and a Greek woman.))))))))))))))))))) Caria and the Carians are mentioned for the first time in the cuneiform texts of the Old Assyrian and Hittite Empires, i.e., between c.1800 and c.1200. The country was called Karkissa. They are absent from the Egyptian texts of this period.
After a gap of some four centuries in which they are mentioned only once (below), the first to mention the Carians is the legendary Greek poet Homer. In the Catalogue of ships, he tells that they lived in Miletus, on the Mycale peninsula, and along the river Meander. In the Trojan War, they had, according to the poet, sided with the Trojans (Homer, Iliad, 2.867ff). This is a remarkable piece of information, because in Homer’s days, Miletus was considered a Greek town; the fact that it is called Carian indicates that the catalogue of ships contains some very old information. In the fifth century, the Greeks thought that the Carians had arrived in Caria from the islands of the Ionian Sea, whereas the Carians claimed to be indigenous. Homer confirms their story.
It is also confirmed by modern linguistics: the Carian language belongs to the Hittite-Luwian subfamily of the Indo-European languages. It is related to Lycian and Lydian, the languages spoken to the southeast and north of Caria.(((((((((( Note Indo European means indo aryan (kurds, persians , Indians (India) indo aryan settled all through out india , Afghanistan ect))))))
Lydia, ancient land of western Anatolia, extending east from the Aegean Sea and occupying the valleys of the Hermus and Cayster rivers. The Lydians were said to be the originators of gold and silver coins.)))) During their brief hegemony over Asia Minor from the middle of the 7th to the middle of the 6th century bc, the Lydians profoundly influenced the Ionian Greeks to their west.
In the 7th century bc Lydia filled the vacuum left by the Cimmerian destruction of Phrygia and established a dynasty at Sardis under the legendary king Gyges. The kingdom reached its zenith under Alyattes (c. 619–560), who parried a Median threat, pushed back the Cimmerians, and extended his rule in Ionia. The kingdom seemed destined to reach even greater heights under Alyattes’ son, the wealthy Croesus, when the Persians under Cyrus brought the Lydian monarchy to a final and dramatic end (c. 546–540).
The Lydians were a commercial people, who, according to Herodotus, had customs like the Greeks and were the first people to establish permanent retail shops. Their invention of metallic coinage, which the Greeks quickly adopted, played an important part as a catalyst in the commercial revolution that transformed Greek civilization in the 6th century bc. ((((Lydians are the Hittites who are Indo Aryan and Kurds are from Medes mix between both)
http://www.livius.org/person/croesus/
According to the Greek researcher Herodotus of Halicarnassus, king Croesus of Lydia was a very powerful man, whose
dominion included all the people to the west of the river Halys […]. He was the first foreigner so far as we know to come into direct contact with the Greeks, both in the way of conquest and alliance, forcing tribute from Ionians, Aeolians, and Asiatic Dorians, and forming a pact of friendship with the Spartans. [Herodotus of Halicarnassus, Histories 1.6; tr. Aubrey de Selincourt]
This is a bit exaggerated. The first king of independent Lydia, Gyges, had already captured a Greek town, Colophon, and Croesus’ father Alyattes had taken Smyrna He also concluded a peace treaty with Miletus. So Lydian involvement in the Greek world was nothing new. What did matter, however, was that Croesus captured nearly all Greek towns along the west coast of Asia. Even more important, when he was defeated by the Persian king Cyrus the Great, these towns became part of the Achaemenid empire. According to Herodotus, this was the cause of the great conflict between Greeks and Persians in the first quarter of the fifth century.
Croesus was born in c.595 as the son of Alyattes, the ruler of Lydia between c.600 and c.560, and a woman from Caria.))))))) He had a sister Aryenis who was in 585 old enough to be married to king Astyages of Media, as part of a border treaty between Lydia and Media.)))))))))) She must have been two or three years older than Croesus. Another sister was married to the tyrant of the Greek city Ephesus, Melas. Finally, Croesus had a half-brother Pantaleon, the son of king Alyattes and a Greek woman.
Without any doubt Croesus was the crown prince. He served some time as governor of Adramyttion, the capital of Mysia and the Troad, which was the usual position given to the intended heir of the Lydian king. Yet, when Astyages died in c.560, Pantaleon seems to have revolted and Croesus’ stepmother tried to poison the new monarch. Eventually, Croesus was saved by his baker, and after much bloodshed the thirty-five year old man could establish himself as sole ruler of Lydia. According to Herodotus,
the first city that Croesus attacked was Ephesus. The Ephesians, when he laid siege to them, ran a rope from their walls to the temple of Artemis, putting the town, by means of this link, under the goddess’ protection. The distance between the temple and the old town is about 1½ kilometers. [Histories 1.26; tr. Aubrey de Selincourt]
This story is strange, because the tyrant of Ephesus, Pindarus, was the son of Croesus’ sister and the former pro-Lydian tyrant, Melas. The regime change must have resulted in a change of policy, and Croesus may have laid siege to the town because it had seized to support Lydia. However this may be, the conflict was ultimately settled peacefully, and Croesus rebuilt the temple of Artemis.
He subsequently attacked all the Ionian and Aeolian cities in turn on various pretexts, substantial or trivial, according to what ground of complaint he could find against them. He forced all Asiatic Greeks to pay him tribute. [Herodotus, Histories 1.26]
Only Miletus, which had been granted a special status by Alyattes, retained some independence, but essentially, all Greeks in Asia Minor were subdued to Croesus. This included Pergamon, which had useful metal mines. The Greeks living on the islands were tied to the Lydian empire by a treaty.
He kept all the people west of the Halys in subjection – Lydians, Phrygians, Mysians, Mariandynians, Chalybians, Paphlagonians, Thracians (both Thynian and Bithynian), Carians, Ionians, Dorians, Aeolians, and Pamphylians. When all these nations had been added to the Lydian empire and Sardes was at the height of her wealth and prosperity, all Greek teachers of that epoch, one after another, paid visits to the capital. [Herodotus, Histories 1.28]
Among these Greeks were the author of fables Aesopus, the Athenian statesman Solon, and the scientist Thales of Miletus. They returned home with stories about the fabulous wealth of Sardes, which the Lydian king also put on display in Delphi, the shrine of Apollo.
However, Croesus was not always lucky. He had two sons. One of them was mute and therefore unfit to rule. His other son, Atys, was in Mysia (perhaps at Adramyttion, the palace of the crown prince) when he died during a hunting accident. According to Herodotus, our main source, Croesus grieved for the death of his son for two years, until news from the east put an end to his mourning.
In 550, the Median empire, which was separated from Lydia by the river Halys, had been overthrown by a Persian named Cyrus, and Croesus wanted to benefit from this turmoil. He might, for example, conquer Cappadocia and Armenia. But Cyrus was a formidable foe, and therefore, the Lydian allied himself to the pharaoh of Egypt, Amasis. Croesus’ envoys seem to have visited the newly founded oracle of Ammon in the desert, which was often a sign that the man who sent them wanted to do business with the local leader. It is not known why Amasis accepted the deal. At the same time, the Babylonian king Nabonidus was looking for an ally against the Persians, and he must have sided with Croesus’ coalition. Finally, after consulting the oracle of Delphi (and leaving many presents), the Lydians asked and received support from the Spartans.
Perhaps, this was also the time when the first Jews settled in Sardes. The evidence is weak, but it has been claimed that the Sepharad mentioned in Obadiah 20 lived in Sfard, the old name of Sardes.
Ancient Greece imposed its hairstyle to the entire world known at that time.
It was the extraordinary Greek civilization which, with its natural and simple hairstyles moving in harmonious waves, marked the hairstyle of the Ancient world. All the neighbor countries and the others conquered by them, will adopt, in one or another moment, its particular style, which later will be inherited by the Roman Empire. The Ancient Greece was the base and the fundamental pillar of al the Occidental culture. Its costumes, architecture, philosophy, and mythological traditions were inherited by the posterior centuries and were present in the Renaissance and in the 18th and 19th centuries.
The most ancient Greek civilization was the Minoic civilization of the Island of Crete, which existed from the year 7.000 BC until the year 1600 BC. In this year they were invaded by the Indo-Europeans from the North West, who founded the Micenic civilization. Through the testimonies of vases and mural paintings we know that the people of these periods were of white skin, with black hair in the Minoic civilization and blond hair in the Micenic civilization. Micenics were called “Achaeans” by Homer in The Iliad. Men used natural hair, wavy and beards. The Trojans, who inhabited what today is Anatolia en Turkey, had black hair, and their women’s hairstyles were carefully elaborated. Married women used long hair with long braids, as a sign of their marital status. In this mural painting, “The Blue Ladies”, from 1.600 BC are notorious these hairstyles.
This hairstyle with long hair and braids is also found in all the representations of goddesses, like Athena, Artemisia, Aphrodite o Cassandra.
There are no representations of blonde goddesses; however, several male gods have been represented or mentioned with “golden hair”, which is a clue to assume that blond hair was the desired hair color for the Greeks.
The cut and style was also a sign of social status: slaves used shorn heads, and people of higher classes elaborated hair dressings, perfumed with olive oil and scented with fragrances; though, in general, the Greeks’ hairstyles were pretty natural.
Near the 5th century BC, in the Classic Greece period, women already used quite different hairstyles than those of their ancestors of the Minoic civilization. Their hair was long, shoulder-length or over the back, and usually held by a diadem or a band. In this period, women stop to use braids as a symbol of marital status. The bands which adorned their heads were called “estefanias” and some of them were made of gold.
Greeks used to perfume their heads with aromatic scents made from flowers, spices and olive oil. They believed that the scents had been delivered to the world by the gods, and they applied fragrances to their body and their hair. They used to boil a mix of flowers and herbs, like myrrh or frankincense, preparing a recipe with olive oil. To soften the hair, they applied brushing and massages. Also they made the hair brighter with the use of lotions, ointments and beeswax. Most of the population of the Ancient Greece had black hair, and for that reason they used yellow dyes, -which was, undoubtedly, their favorite color-, using a mix of saffron flowers and potassium water (a mix of potassium bicarbonate and carbonic acid water). Today saffron, derived from the purple saffron crocus flower, is one of the most expensive spices in the world. Due to its extreme value, the beautiful purple saffron crocus is not likely to be used in floral arrangements by Avas Flowers.part2
Actually i’m chaldean assyrian even tho it’s the same thing some people try to day it’s not anyways my point is we are not arabs if arabs are not chaldean then chaldean are not arab …simple as that
Chaldeans are arabic? bruh I was born in America and I speak and write Assyrain Perfectly and i don’t even speak one word arabic so how da hack am i ARABIC
origin of arabs and hebrews are Arami !
Chaldeans are not Arabs. It doesn’t mean if Chaldeans were born in Iraq they are Arabs. As matter fact, there are many other ethnicitis born in Iraq who consider themselves non-Arab. It is not we get disgusted to be Arabs; instead, the truth is we are not Arabs period.
Chaldeans are not native to Iraq ? you must use your common sense first of all they Arameans are the Chaldeans same people they emerged after the actual Arami tribe of Thamud perished , they came from the West when the actual tribe of Thamud perished the remaining sons of Aram were known as Arman , they are the Nabateans this is just the Akkadians and Imliq(Amorites) they are descendants of Prophet Hud and Saleh PBH . The Thamud are from Nabi Hud PBH Thamud mixed with the Assyrians and before this Kings of of another Arami Nation (Adites) had conquered all Iraq and Syria this mixing with Akkadians and Imliq it makes them Arami the Akkadians are from Nabi Hud PBH and Imliq (amorites) are from Nabi Saleh also i said i dreamt the Arameans absorbed the Amorites well it could very well the branches of Amorites were absorbed secondly it could be the people of Umaym who are these people absorbed by Imliq there are things in arab history that i have come accross that dont make sense . the people of Arphaxad were in the West during the Ad and Thamud so what were they doing all that time it is a mix the Imliq and akkadians mixed with Canaanites and this is seen in the beduoin s of Jordan Nabatean Agriculture makes clear that ‘Nabateans’ was seen as a noble term and was used for ancient Chaldean sages and their followers. They lived in ancient Chaldea or Babylonia, i.e. present-day Iraq. It is not inconceivable that they had a branch in Petra, since various sculpted motifs in Petra correspond to those of ancient Chaldea or Babylonia. http://www.theosofie.net/impuls/2010/nabateans.html
and Chaldeans mixed with the Indo aryan Lydians and Medes the Kurds come this heritage Indians are also from Indo aryan hittites
Also i want to say some of you talk a lot of nonsense you do not even know the history properly what I said about the Adites is correct and it is even mentioned in the Bible ATS Bible Dictionary
Uz
The land in which Job dwelt, Job 1:1 Jeremiah 25:20 La 4:21. The Seventy call it Ausitis. It appears to have been a region in Arabia Deserta, between Palestine, Idumaea, and the Euphrates, and most probably not far from the borders of Idumaea. It is uncertain whether its inhabitants were descendants of Uz the son of Aram, Huz the son of Nahor, or Uz the Horite, Genesis 10:23 22:21 36:28. They appear to have had much knowledge of the true God and the principles of virtue and religion. Uz id Aws son of Aram (Iram)
http://shoebat.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/euphrates-tigris-valley-map.jpg
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/e7/ca/31/e7ca31701e36f01d8bc22bc6a03de249.jpg
Jeremiah 25:20
and all the foreign people there; all the kings of Uz; all the kings of the Philistines (those of Ashkelon, Gaza, Ekron, and the people left at Ashdod);
yes all the Imliq is from Ad this makes them people of Aws a mix but one cannot forget the Akkadians Thamud were same time as Assyrians
all people of Aws and Gether (Athir)
the Nabateans formed in the West it is the Akkadians and Imliq and the arphaxad element can be included in this a mix they are the ones who carried the blessings from Hud and Saleh Arami Prophets PBT
Sayyidina Ibrahim PBH was called a wandering Aramean
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1ntkJr0QcU&feature=share
4:08 of video man on left smiling and grey in beard handsome face
4:20 of video man on right with the beard very handsome face
On 07/23/13 I dreamt of North Syria area of Hatay and I see we are fromThaqifi people who are from Hud AS and I see them and Banu Haashim standing together wearing white
On 20/03/13 I dreamt that the Thamud are from Nabi HUD AS
on 20/10/13 I read this from {{{{{{{{Wikipedia “The title and description given by Photius to Thamud indicates that they had a status similar to Qedarites who have been identified as Arabs”}}}}}
According to Classical Arabic sources, it’s agreed upon that the only remaining group of the native people of Thamud are the tribe of Banu Thaqif which inhabited the city of Taif south of Mecca
In a hadith reported in Sahih Muslim, Muhammad mentions that ‘Isa (Jesus) resembles Urwah ibn Mas’ud.[2] closest in appearance. He was very white with reddish cheeks,tall with dark black hair and eyes.wikipedia
on 01/Tuesday/2015 i dreamt the imliq are from Nabi Saleh pbh and Akkadians are from Nabi Hud pbh
on 10/28/2012 i dreamt Nabi Hud is from Arfakhshaad and I also something to do with Nabi Saleh pbt although i dreamt this Nabi Hud is from tribe of Ad he is Awsi but there is no contradiction as nothing is mentioned about his mother
Urwa bin Masud RAs was from tribe of Thaqeef
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1ntkJr0QcU 3:02 of video the these two men have handsome faces
28/08/12I dreamt of indians being from ancient arabs
On 04/22/14 I dreamt of that Indians and Sindis are from Buqayin bin Qahtan If I remember its mentioned in prophets and patriarchs ))))))
On 09/11/11 I dreamt the Indians and Sindis are from Arfakhshaad ))))) As I mentioned before
on 09/02/12 I dreamt of a map of Iraq and I saw the southern portion and I also saw India(Hind) and the southern part and there was much trade between them)))))
I dreamt on m/d/y 10/05/12 the Thamud went into India and went into southern India.))))) On 20/03/13 I dreamt that the Thamud are from Nabi HUD AS (Or just royalty)
(((((30/08/12 I dreamt the Greeks & Kurds are same & that the Kurds are from Edomites.))))) On 09/30/12 I dreamt the Kurds and Indians (Indians) are from Hittite royalty))))))).
on 01/12/15 I dreamt the Edomites are the Chaldeans and that the Kurds and Indians are from Chaldeans (In India has nothing to do with color whether fair or an actual brown color skin))
I dreamt on m/d/y 10/05/12 the Thamud went into India and went into southern India.)))))
(((On 04/01m/ 15 I dreamt the Generals in the armies of Greeks were from Prophet Hud pbh (his descendants) Indo aryan Hittites their origin is from Akkadians.I saw Hittite face and black hair.))))) greeks are not the only ones
on 18/09/14 I dreamt the descendants of Nabi Hud PBH were generals))))
On 23/09/2013 I dreamt of the Prophet PBH saying the Kurds are from the Chaldeans and pointing to himself , he said they are my people.))))
On 08/26/13 I dreamt the Kurds in Jordan mixing with Nabateans I saw northern iraq.)))))
On 02/11d/14 i dreamt the Arameans are the Chaldeans))))
Chaldeans are not arab, arab ancestors are from arabia and Kurdistan, while chaldean ancestors are Babylonian and Assyrian so we are not arab
Prophet Abraham pbh did not look like this > https://www.google.ca/search?q=chaldean+men&client=ms-android-rogers-ca&prmd=ivn&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjj9NGk3ebMAhUs7IMKHd3nBUoQ_AUIBygB&biw=480&bih=772#imgrc=uCEm7fvgZAUAKM%3A
He was closer to this 》 https://www.google.ca/search?q=bedouins+of+petra&oq=bedouins+of+&aqs=chrome.3.69i57j0l3.6538j0j4&client=ms-android-rogers-ca&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8#imgrc=XBy6o3rAENCNrM%3A 《 this type of look with features that I described about him an oval face , v hairline raven black wavy hair a beautiful curve to his nose bridge , one flowing curve upside down v eyebrows with that type of look
You obviously don’t know anything about history
Chaldean Empire . Chaldeans are the Arameans who are the Nabateans who mixed with indo aryan (iranic) Medes (kurds) and Lydians (neo hittites) who are the Minoans . The j2b2 found in southern india is thought to have come from the neolithic Greeks , probably not but the indo aryan lydians who also mixed with the Medes . The Minoans were the 1st Greek civilization , but were not Greeks they came from Anatolia . Modern turks are not original inhabitants of Anatolia , they are people from Turkmenistan, Balkans and Caucus . The Kurds are original inhabitants of anatolia see where modern day kurdistan is and overlap that with semitc empires.
https://www.google.ca/search?q=karwan+sharawani&client=ms-android-rogers-ca&prmd=vni&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwihpISC4ubMAhWM8YMKHanUCicQ_AUICSgD&biw=480&bih=772&dpr=1.5#imgrc=EhXYWORzzFTjaM%3A 《 iraqi kurd
https://www.google.ca/search?q=chaldean+empire&client=ms-android-rogers-ca&biw=480&bih=772&prmd=ivn&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjyvNOK4ObMAhWs64MKHcwvAdoQ_AUIBigB#imgrc=cl-CGqrdLGd3_M%3A
Chaldeans are not Arab, no wonder why so many individuals hate your kind. I am Chaldean myself from Iraq, and I am no Arab! No wonder why so many people also also hate your violent stupid religion. You steal our land and lie because it says it is okay in your satanic book, but when we defend ourselves against you people, we are the bad people? You are not civil at all, Piss be upon your prophet, and the Fakestinians are no real people either. You come from Arabia! Leave Assyria, our land with your stupid Islam.
Chaldeans are Arami in origin , they are the Arameans who are the Nabateans who are just the Akkadians and Imliq . Adites conquered iraq and syria mixing with akkadians and imliq (amorites) , when actual tribe of ad perished Prophet Hud was with the Thamud another arami tribe they are from him . Thamud mixed with the assyrians and when actual tribe of thamud perished it was imliq who are from Prophet Saleh Pbh , when thamud perished the remaining sons of aram were known as Arman , they are the Nabateans who are the Arameans who are the Chaldeans whose origin is aws (uz) and ather (gether) with element of arphaxad . People of arphaxad were dwelling in west during time of adites and thamud . The origin of hebrews and arabs are Aws . Sayyidina Ibrahim and Ismael pbt are Chaldeans Sayyidina Ibrahim pbh had most beautiful oval shaped face , upside down v eyebrows , wavy black hair with v hairline and a beautiful curve to his nose bridge one flowing curve NOT a bunp then a curve and not hooked at end . The flowing curve is like a falcons beak turned upside down that type of flowing curve . Everyone knows chaldeans mixed with the indo aryan medes (kurds) and lydians medes and lydians also mixed . Lydians are the minoans
https://www.google.ca/search?q=chaldean+empire&client=ms-android-rogers-ca&prmd=ivn&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiQooXvu-XMAhVE2IMKHaOQAB8Q_AUIBygB&biw=480&bih=772#imgrc=MJ78–meoT2FxM%3A
Tayma For part of his reign, Babylonian king Nabonidus retired to Tayma for worship and looking for prophecies, entrusting the kingship of Babylon to his son, Belshazzar. Wikipedia
Tayma (Arabic: تيماء; also transliterated Tema) is a large oasis with a long history of settlement, located in northwestern Saudi Arabia at the point where the trade route between Yathrib (Medina) and Dumah (al-Jawf) begins to cross the Nefud desert. Tayma is located 264 km southeast of the city of Tabouk, and about 400 km north of Medina.
Nabatean Agriculture makes clear that ‘Nabateans’ was seen as a noble term and was used for ancient Chaldean sages and their followers. They lived in ancient Chaldea or Babylonia, i.e. present-day Iraq. It is not inconceivable that they had a branch in Petra, since various sculpted motifs in Petra correspond to those of ancient Chaldea or Babylonia
http://www.theosofie.net/impuls/2010/nabateans.html
Enjoyed reading your post. Thank you
It’s not that we despise being called Arabs. It’s simply that we are not, ethnically, Arabs. Arabs originate from the Arabian peninsula and only largely came to Mesopotamia during the 8th century A.D. while Chaldeans (Assyrians) originate from northern Iraq and have lived there for over four millennia . That’s why we’ve kept our unique langauge, culture, religion, and names to this day. We are proud of our history and of being Chaldean and do not want to be diluted into the general Arab crowd or forget our real identity.
Chaldeans are simply non-Muslim Arabic people.
That’s the dumbest argument i’ve ever heard ! the arab people are from Arabia…as in the peninsula. Everyone else just speaks arabic because their region was conquered by arabs in the past. Its like saying Mexicans are actually Spaniards because they speak spanish ! and Hussayn dude…you need to get a life. seiously.
That was a great read and I learned something. Thanks for taking the time to write it. I grew up in Dearborn and I agree with many of your perceptions.
Who are the Chaldeans?
Source: http://www.urofthechaldeans.com
Chaldea corresponds to the geographical territory situated within the south-eastern marshlands and coastal plains of southern Babylonia along the Euphrates and Tigris rivers.
From the beginning of the second millennium BCE, an influx of semi-nomadic clans infiltrated southern Babylonia in waves. The Chaldeans controlled much of southern Babylonia’s trade routes due to the territory’s adjacency to the Persian Gulf.
In antiquity, the Chaldeans were also the driving force behind the advancement of Babylonian astronomy and science. Chaldean philosophers sophisticated the already established observations and devised complex theories to describe the cosmological phenomena.
According to the table of nations, the Biblical Chaldeans were descended from Arpachshad, grandson of Noah.
During the advent of Christendom, the earliest manifestation of the Chaldeans is attested in the first century CE manuscripts entitled ‘The Teaching of the Twelve Apostles.’ The text constitutes the earliest principles concerning Christian ethics, rituals, church organisation, and baptism.
The Apostles further appointed: Whosoever resorts to magicians and soothsayers and Chaldeans, and puts confidence in fates and nativities, which they hold fast who know not God,- let him also, as a man that knows not God, be dismissed from the ministry, and not minister again. – Teaching of the Twelve Apostles (c. 65 CE)
The Chaldeans profess to be acquainted with the horoscope. – Hippolytus of Rome (c. 200 CE)
Early Syriac narratives for instance that of the ‘Doctrines of Addai’ also indicate the Chaldeans neither embraced the Holy Gospels nor the newly founded religion ‘Christianity.’ Converts to Christendom were encouraged not to associate with the Chaldeans.
The term ‘Chaldean’ was stigmatised by the early Church fathers and employed in a derogatory connotation.
In c. 800 CE, Abbasid Caliph al-Ma’mun came into contact with the Chaldeans in the ancient city of Harran. The caliph observed that the Chaldeans practised a form of astrolatry and were not recognised as a “dhimmi.”
The term “dhimmi” refers to non-Muslim citizens of an Islamic state. The word literally means “protected person.” Followers of monotheistic religions enjoyed some level of privileges under Islamic law.
The Caliph commanded the Chaldeans to either embrace one of the religions mentioned in the Koran or face death. A local tribal sheikh encouraged the Chaldeans to identify as Sabeans. The Chaldeans thus renounced their identity and embraced the Sabean nomenclature.
Early Islamic and Judaic scholarly narratives corroborate this historical event.
The Chaldeans are also called Sabeans, the name Sabeans was applied to them at the time of al-Ma’mun. – al-Khwarizmi (c. 839 CE)
Then he, the sheikh said to them when al-Ma’mun returns from his journey, say to him, ‘we are Sabeans,’ for this is the name of a religion which Allah, may his name be exalted, mentioned in the Koran. Profess it and you will be saved by it. – Ibn al-Nadim (c. 900 CE)
What is left of the Chaldeans is now in the two cities Harran and Roha, and that they in the time of al-Ma’mun gave up the name Chaldeans and took the name Sabeans. – Hamzah al-Issfahani (c. 900 CE)
It is well known that the Patriarch Abraham was brought up in the religion and the opinion of the Sabeans, that there is no divine being except the stars. – Musa Ibn Maymun (c. 1200 CE)
During the early Middle Ages, East Syriac Christians inhabited the northern territory of Cyprus. This community adhered to the Church of the East and were also denominationally known as Nestorians. The Roman Catholic Church viewed the Nestorians as heretics and exhausted every effort in converting them to Catholicism.
In 1445 CE, the Council of Florence presided by Pope Eugene IV succeeded in welcoming the community into Catholicism. Furthermore, the Papacy constructed a distinct confessional body and bestowed upon them the unmeaning title of ‘Chaldeans.’
Why Chaldean?
The sacred liturgies practised by this community was conducted in the East Syriac dialect which the Papacy romanticised and synonymously regarded as Chaldaic- with reference to the Biblical Book of Daniel.
According to Medieval scholars, the Ethiopian (Abyssinian) faction denominationally identified its community as ‘Chaldean’ indicating that the term was neither exclusive to the East Syriac Christian converts, nor was it employed to designate an ethno-political identity.
The Ethiopians call themselves Chaldeans. – Joseph Justus Scaliger (c. 1540 CE)
Six centuries since it was renounced, the Chaldean identity was thus revived by the Roman Catholic Church.
In 1552 CE, a power struggle broke out within the Church of the East which provoked distrust amongst various monks toward their anointed Patriarch.
Yohanan Sulaqa, a schismatic monk failed in legitimising his candidacy to topple the Patriarchate thus journeyed to Rome and presented his confession of faith before Pope Julius III. The Papacy consecrated Sulaqa ‘Patriarch of the Eastern Assyrians’ presiding over the Catholic ‘Church of Mosul in Assyria.’
A rival Patriarchate was now formed.
In efforts of reinforcing the union, the Papacy came to denominate the Catholic portion ‘Chaldeans’ in conformity with the precedent converts in Cyprus a century earlier. In c. 1844 CE, the so-called Chaldean Patriarch was encouraged by the Holy See to journey to Constantinople in order of attaining a Ottoman mandate recognising the Chaldean Catholics as a distinct community to that of the Nestorians.
The ambitious views of the Roman pontiffs sowed the pestilential seeds of animosity and discord among all Eastern Churches; and the Nestorian Christians, who are also known by the denomination of Chaldeans, felt early the effects of their imperious councils. – Johann Lorenz Mosheim (c. 1726 CE)
They distinguish themselves by the name of Chaldeans for they detest and abhor the denomination, or distinction of Nestorians. – Cornelius De Bruyn (c. 1736 CE)
The Christians who are born in the towns of Mosul, and of Mardin, do not speak a word of Chaldaic, at least it is not their mother tongue. – Carsten Niebuhr (c. 1797 CE)
The present Chaldean Christians are of a recent origin. The sect was as new as the office, and was created for it. Converts to the Papacy from the Nestorian and Jacobite Churches were unified in one body, and dignified by the name of the Chaldean Church… In fact, all the Nestorian Church books are used by the Chaldeans. The priest seemed to think, that, in conformity with the name of his Church, its books must in ancient times have been written in the Chaldean character, but confessed at present it posses no such books, and only uses the Nestorian character (Syriac). – Rev Eli Smith (c. 1833 CE)
The so-called “Chaldeans” of Mesopotamia recieved that title, as you know, from the Pope, on their becoming Catholics. – Edward Robinson (1841 CE)
The Pope bestowed upon them, the venerable, but unmeaning title of Chaldeans, which they now claim; Although they were and are truly nothing more than Papal Nestorians, or Nestorian Catholics. – North American Review (c. 1843 CE)
The community styling themselves “Chaldeans,” had not been recognised by the Ottoman Porte. This was the first recognition by the Ottoman Porte of the new community. – George Percy Badger (c. 1844 CE)
To the title which the Pope has given to them of “Chaldean Christians,” they have no exclusive claim, not such a strong claim, indeed. – John Wilson (1846 CE)
Chaldeans. A modern sect of Christians in the East, in obedience to the see of Rome. – Walter Farquhar Hook (1859 CE)
At the schism on account of Nestorius, the Assyrians, under the generic name of the Chaldean Church, mostly separated from the Orthodox Greeks, and, being under the rule of the Persians, were protected against persecution. – Henry John Van-Lennep (1875 CE)
Another fact connected with the nationality of the Chaldeans which goes far to show they are as much entitled to Assyrian descent as any other community which boasts of ancient origins. – Hormuzd Rassam (c. 1898 CE)
Strictly, the name of Chaldeans is no longer correct. – The Catholic Encyclopedia, vol. 3 (1908 CE)
It may not be out of place, therefore, to point out that there were exceedingly few Roman Catholic Assyrians or “Chaldeans” as they are generally termed when they embrace Rome, amongst the refugees at Baqubah. The very large majority of the Roman Catholic Assyrians in the Mosul vilayet did not join the mountaineers and fight against the Turks in consequence were permitted by the Turks to continue to dwell practically unmolested in their homes about Mosul. – Herbert Henry Austin (1920 CE)
The modern usage of the Chaldean identity is challenged by conflicting historical narratives.
The Sabeans are the Chaldeans. – Joseph Justus Scaliger (c. 1540 CE)
The Chaldeans, that lived towards the foot of the river Euphrates, were called Sabeans by the Arabians and Jews. – George Mackenzie (c. 1711 CE)
The Chaldee language of the Sabeans. – William Tooke (c. 1769 CE)
Sabeans, or Christians of St. John, as they are vulgarly called, who lived near what was considered to be ancient Chaldea, and who are generally supposed to be descendants of the old Babylonians and Chaldeans. – John Philip Newman (c. 1826 CE)
Whenever the term “Chaldean” occurs in the Nestorian rituals, which it does only in two instances, it is not used to designate a Christian community, but the ancient sect, who have been called also Sabeans. – George Percy Badger (c. 1844 CE)
The sect variouslty known by the names of Sabeans, presents the most curious combination of wholly diverse creeds that can be conceived. As the descendants of the ancient Semitic population of Chaldea, and the inheritors of the Babylonian language. – Stanley Lane-Poole (c. 1883 CE)
The Kasdim, the Chaldeans and the Sabeans, are only different names successively given to the same people. In the time of the Bible they were called Kasdim; in the age of the Talmud they were the Chaldeans, and later they recieved the name of the Sabeans. – Michael Friedlander (c. 1890 CE)
Presently, the Sabeans of the south-eastern marshlands and coastal plains of southern Iraq identify as ‘Mandaean.’ The term is derived from the ancient Babylonian ‘Mandētu’ meaning ‘the knowledgeable.’ The Mandaean Book of the Zodiacs bears rich testimony to various astrological and ancient Chaldean doctrines.
Chaldaeorum, Chaldea, Chaldean, Chaldean Catholic Church, Chaldéenne, Chaldees, Kaldaya, Mandaeans, Sabeans, כשדים, الصابئة المندائيين, الكلدان, الكنيسة الكلدانية، اور الكلدانيين، Chaldean Identity, Chaldean League, Louis Raphaël I Sako, البطريرك لويس روفائيل ساكو, الرابطة الكلدانية, خلاصة تاريخ الكنيسة الكلدانية
I have dug deep into this. I live in San Diego which has an enormous Chaldean population. I asked them that if I read correctly, are they technically Assyrian? And more than a few said yes.
We do not claim to be Arabs because our ethnicity is not of Arab gypsies who took over our land. Attempting to erase our rich and different cultural history is part of a political campaign by recognising us as Arab Christians instead of Assyrians and Chaldeans. The point is our ethnicity has been targeted for many genocides because of this and our claim to the land as the indigenous communities of Mesopotamia. For example: Aboriginal and Torres Straight Islanders denying their history heritage and the genocide and stolen generations to claim they are Australian and nothing else. I’m not sure my example makes perfect sense in the context but I hope it sheds light. Don’t call us Arab, it is insulting for these reasons.
I grew up in Michigan and I heard the tu term Chalean a lot but never knew what it meant. Thank you for the enlightenment
Yah at first my parents are italians and arabs. But i just always called my self arab christian but when meeting people for the longest they always called me chaldean so i saod itialian cuz it got annoying. Soi was woundering if i was considered that for my religion. I mean britians that migrat here in america and now considered Americans instead so i think same story not sure though
DNA results show that present day chaldeans are of ancient Assyrian descent . So yes present day chaldeans genome is of Assyrian descent, So chaldeans are neither chaldean or Arab , they are Assyrian . and if you wondered why they like to remind you that they are not Arabs is because Arabic is the Invaders language , Islam is the Invaders religion . they feel that they are the natives of their lands and the conqurer has never apologized nor made it easy to be not Muslim in their lands. Imagine how a native American would feel if you I insisted on calling him white .
U guys are talking 1400 to 2000yeařs back,why don’t talk 5000thousand years ago? Are there only exist àround 2000years? So what is before that? In fact both Christianity and Islam doesn’t exist 5000years back .so how come people can make sure the land is yours? Be fair only speak truths please..remember that the truth don’t disappear..
I moved to Michigan in 1994 and started working for a company in Detroit called Powerhouse Gyms. Come to find out this company was founded by Chaldeans The Dabish Family. I had no idea what a Chaldean was at the time, I honestly thought they were Italian at first. After working for them for 16 years I got pretty close to them and the culture, mainly because the Catholic/Christian heritage fit in with my background. What was different was there a food that was it. What I did learn from them and the main reason to comment is the leaders often said they hated the Muslim, this is because they were persecuted by the Muslim for years because of there religious beliefs, nit because of the American word for Muslim as so said in this article. The fact is the Muslims persecuted the Chaldeans that is why the fled the country and the hate the Muslims.